Feb 13, 2008
This Layout Says it All
(Click to enlarge pic)
Mssg from sender:
“It is too much of a coincidence to have the same concept and art-
direction in the same country, same industry in the same time
perioud, except that we created the concept as a calendar (2000
copies) and print ad (published it in the yellow pages).
This agency has done this copy cat before in the dumbbell ads (2006
majestic plus Kuwait) and is known to post work that is never
published - this should stop.
I am writing you this in the hope that you will publish it so that
copy cats will be reduced and published work to be awarded and to
raise the level of the industry”.
57 Comments, Comment or Ping
Moey
mmm, and the sender is Louai? and the image is from stock images?
Feb 13th, 2008
Mark
the sender i also think is louai but the image is from his calendar
Feb 13th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
:)
Feb 14th, 2008
Gilbert Semillano
We assume that the posting would take time, so I am going to clarify a few grey areas regarding COPYCATS & COPIERS.
- You thought you cracked an award-winning concept for an ad, not knowing that someone from the other side of the globe already releases an ad with the same “visual” as yours, then how do we call it? Coincidence or Copy? This phenomenon happens in advertising.
- We saw ads that really looked very like each other, same product, same visual that somehow looked like “spot the difference” thing. How do we classify that? That’s a Copy & who’s the Copycat?
- Another issue of same execution but in different concept, like the HSBC ad and the “Majistic” (spells Majestic btw) ad, do we call it Similar, Familiar or Peculiar?
- What about Smokey the bear with all mouth wide open showing his Pencil fangs and say nothing? Also a recruitment ad by sharp creatives looking for more new blood? Who has the better claim in the two to use pencil as visuals?
- In the issue of PUBLISHING or NOT, well, It is in the decision of the creatives whether to “post” or “publish” them in blogs like these, but that doesn’t make them criminals or fugitives that are subject to false accusations that would demoralize their image as creative people in the industry. These people are disciplined creatives with no other intention but to showcase their creativity and hoping might inspire others in pursuit of excellence in creativity in the country (watch out, world!)
- If people like Mr. Secretary is going to shoot down flying ideas instead of encouraging them because he thinks these are not published or thought copied from his concepts, what would happen to the creative people in the industry then? Will they have the courage to be creative? Will they try to be inventive or innovative?
- I think what has to be done is, that Mr. Secretary should gives us “creative people” the support we need. Mr. Secretary, YOU should lead the way, be the role model so that people would look up to you and give you RESPECT. I know it is hard to earn them, and you can never get them by force. Learn to accept the fact that there are a lot of great minds out there, creative people like you(?) So, why not join hands instead of pointing fingers?
This is our response to the issue of “COPYING” and “COPYCAT” according to Mr. Secretary General’s crusade.
“Let Us All Get Out Of The Box”
Feb 14th, 2008
Moey
HAHAHAHA! Gilbert, you make valentine’s day glitter.
Feb 14th, 2008
NOMAD
Gilbert S’ comment says it all.
Kuwait should have more “Gs” and less “Ls”
Feb 14th, 2008
NOMAD
G - for Great-thinkers, Gunners, Gilberts?
L - for Loud, Losers, & Louais?
Feb 14th, 2008
SoupDragon
That’s a really nice way to say - “I’m proud to be a robber ” :D. I guess you’re looking at the world with your inner child’s eyes :))). Hope it works for you too if you have to defend your (truly) creative concept.
P.S. Let’s not try yo convince everybody that Kuwait is the whole World ;). What are the chances to see so very similar work in a small country in a such short period of time? Please calculate me the percentage :D
Feb 14th, 2008
kre8tive
Soup, you’re turning warm dude! Tell me you didn’t get it? Oh Damn! You Did! Are you the secretary’s wife? lol
Feb 14th, 2008
mADman
No, Kre8tive. It’s the secretary’s secretary(:-D)
Feb 14th, 2008
SoupDragon
you’re such a nice gay couple :D
Feb 14th, 2008
SoupDragon
don’t comment my opinion - comment what’s obvious?!
Feb 14th, 2008
Jayson
kre8tive why don’t you post some of your work? Instead of discussing b’coz it’s disgusting. You don’t have work?
Feb 14th, 2008
jayson
G - nice loveletter :)
“JAYSON” if you want to use my name, just add your email add, ok?
Feb 14th, 2008
Mark
I don’t think Gilbert denied copying the pencil fangs idea. I think what he is saying is that he was able to take Louai’s idea and improve on it. I think thats what he is trying to say Gilbert can correct me if I am wrong.
Also what Louai keeps trying to bring up the published or not. What I think he means by that is that its easy to come up with creative pro active work, its more difficult to come up with creative work that does get released. Meaning when you do something and there is no client coming to you with his requirements or changing your ideas to meet his needs, its easier to be creative.
Now what I think on the above two things is this. Copying work is wrong of course BUT, if Gilbert did the fangs layout to show people how a good idea can be improved then it should be fine as long as he didn’t release the ad and I don’t think he did, I think he just did it for this blog.
Has the work been released yes or no? I think this should be made clear on this blog. I for one hate ghost work that tries to get passed as real released work. If an ad has not been released then I believe the ad sender should mention it and ads2blog also.
Just my 2 cents
Feb 14th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
As signs of respect to our pears in the advertising industry; we at Paragon
1- Don’t copy ideas and never will.
2- Don’t enter ghost ads in competitions and never will.
3- Don’t post unpublished work and never will.
We challenge YOU to follow in our footsteps.
Feb 15th, 2008
mADman
“pears” or “peers”? you should add:
4- Don’t make typographical errors. Because it’s lethal in advertising.
har har har.
Feb 15th, 2008
Gilbert Semillano
Thanks, Mark.
But let me elaborate a bit on that, and I want it
to be for the record:
-I NEVER COPY SMOKEY’S FANGS NOR IMPROVE ON IT.
the recruitment ad was made (in 15mins) specially for this blog
in hope of getting great cvs (as we know A2B has creative viewers)
You would never see the recruitment ad posted here
if we saw smokey or knew about it, because as disciplined
professionals we do give respect to the creators. but you can
never prevent us from using pencil as visuals, what’s our
agency name again?
-As for the 3rd paragraph, I totally and absolutely agree with you!
I would be the first person in line to oppose such thing.
COPYING is not in our vocabulary.
We never brag about our work, we’re just sharing it.
I guess some people couldn’t take it:-)
Feb 15th, 2008
kre8tive
well done!!! Imagine making diamonds out of garbage?
Feb 15th, 2008
radiant guy
Neat!
Feb 15th, 2008
kre8tive
How many Jaysons we have here?:-) “Attack of the clones” Hahahahahahaaah!
Feb 16th, 2008
Moey
for what its worth, I like Gilbert’s execution and I think It is better than “many” published work that lacks creativity or wins KREA awards ;)
Feb 16th, 2008
Impartial
To be fair Gilbert’s ad is a copycat by all means, intentional or not? Gilbert claims it wasn’t. Nevertheless the truth remains Pencil’s version is much better than Paragon’s. It is more focused and single minded.
Feb 16th, 2008
Impartial
To be fair Gilbert’s ad is a copycat by all means, intentional or not? Gilbert claims it wasn’t. Nevertheless the truth remains Pencil’s version is much better than Paragon’s. It is more focused and single minded.
Feb 16th, 2008
Jean
Not to crazy about the idea, but its an agency calender. So if you guys liked it and agreed upon it thats all that really matter. Who cares. I have to agree with Gilbert an idea does not belong to you. 1,10,100 people have had the same or similar idea used or not. its really just a matter of execution and how the bring it to peoples attention.
Just a question what did the rest of the calender look like? Same concept with animals? If so? That would be pretty rocking.
Feb 19th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
JEAN…send me your address and i will send you calender to see for yourself.
Feb 19th, 2008
Mark
Jean, an idea that you come up with DOES belong to you the same way music you create DOES belong to you and logos you create DO belong to you and movies you create DO belong to you and inventions you come up with DO belong to you etc.. etc..
Feb 22nd, 2008
kre8tive
Jean:Just a question what did the rest of the calender look like? Same concept with animals? If so?
Like Old Mcdonald’s Farm… E-I, E-I, Oh! lol
Feb 24th, 2008
sleepingowl
Mark, you do not own an idea; you own its execution. That too if you have the copyright to it. Alot of movies are made with the generic idea of good winning over bad, but the execution is different. Mars Attack and Independence Day both had the same ‘idea/concept’ of aliens attacking us, but what was different was the execution. You do not see the directors of these movies fighting over their idea being stolen because they did not invent the concept! Every romantic chick flick is an almost copy of the other, but execution is different. You need to understand that.
What I’m trying to say is that, it is more than likely to have similar ideas where creative minds are concerned.
Feb 24th, 2008
Nasser
“ The difference between an advertisement and another, when measured in terms of sales, can be as much as nineteen to one”
David Ogilvy
Before we start:
“ This is a-one-time contribution that devoted to a friend who asked me to view this site, and for all real advertising mavericks out there.
I hope that you will tolerate the size of this note and my bad English; after all it is not my native language.
A long comment on a short subject
This comment aims on making a slight difference in the way you see advertising campaigns and the path you choose reviewing and commenting on them.
After viewing most of the artworks showcased and the reviews made on them, I had the feeling that almost everyone just missed the point of advertising, particularly what concerns creative process. Critique, if necessary, has its own rules and logic. It is not about writing some kind of irrelevant comment for the sake of being there.
Some facts about critique:
a. It seems to be easy for those who think critique is equal negative.
b. In almost every case (Accept for few), critique is made by those couldn’t make great accomplishments in the filed they write about.
c. Critique is easy because it concerns the work of others.
d. Negative critique is a sign of arrogance.
1st Advice: Your work is a mirror, look in it and evaluate yourself first.
I get straight to the point:
1. Advertising is about selling.
We sell or else said the great Ogilvy once, and by saying that he said it all. The right and only criteria should be allowed in evaluating campaigns are the sales figures resulted from by it. Campaign’s look is subjective, people have different taste and that is good so. Art directions, visuals, colors and type are the appearance, you may like it or not, but the fact that it was published or broadcasted means the client liked it and bought it and that is where you have to start.
2nd Advice: Figure out a way to find out if the campaign generated sales or not prior to start criticizing. Is there any way to get that information…good luck!
2. Advertising is about creative leverage
“The single-minded devotion to, and the belief in the power of creativity”, as Fallon described. The creativity meant her is does not point to designers, art directors and writers as one might think. It means everyone involved in managing & producing a campaign. Account planners, strategists, managers, researches, clients, distributors and creative team as well, who sincerely take the challenge to affect consumers and achieve results through strategic planning. Any campaign is the visual translation of efforts, knowledge and commitment of many people and they deserve to be respected, no matter they have reached their goal or not.
3rd Advice: Take a look behind the scene and try to see if it offers any creative leverage, belief and commitment before you fire on it.
3. Advertising is about big ideas
“Are you doing very good stuff? How fast can you stop ?” Seth Godin
Very good is the opposite of remarkable. Big ideas are rare, and exactly because of that they called “ big”. Some of the big shots in the field couldn’t produce more than hand full of them. Remember Ogilvy, Bernbach, Clown, Brignull, McCabe, Fallon and many others. Nothing wrong with ordinary stuff, it might be just what your client or the market you are in need. Not every time you have to produce big idea. The bad news is that you will not, the good news is that advertising allows you unlimited number of shots. Keep trying, and on the way there ignore negative comments, passive people and focus on you client’s interest. Be remarkable and produce brilliant strategies and brilliant executions. It will not work every time, but it worth the world when it does.
4th Advice: Before accusing others they lack of big ideas, check you record and then write your note.
4. Advertising is about combination
“Ideas are new combinations of old elements” J.W. Young
The creative process in general is an attempt to find new combination of old elements. Therefore, replications, duplications, overlaps and excerpts will continue to be there. Looking for similarities is not the smartest way to constructive critique because any one can find them when it is your only goal. One who sees to blue colors similar is superficial and unknowledgeable. Graphic elements have to be seen in their function. Types, colors, visuals and layouts are graphic elements employed to serve certain purpose and they going to be used over and over. What will happen to words like “SALE” or “BUY” if those negative persons succeed in their quest to intimidate creative marketers? Here is the good news, they will fail every time, because they want to stop the world moving, and this is impossible. Brand like “ Google” “ Nokia” & “ iPod” just to name a few are the proof of my statement.
5th Advice: don’t look for similarities, try to find the individuality of the campaign and write about it, let people learn from you.
5. Advertising is about clients
“Instead of rising their voice, they raised their credibility….” P. Fallon
A campaign is the result of people’s efforts including clients. Mocking up at campaigns is an act of ridicule and it is insulting even the campaign has been unsuccessful. With negative remarks you insult not only the agency and the client at the same time. A client who approved a campaign and paid for it worth respect and a positive word even he did not choose what “ YOU” like. It is known that clients know their business better than anyone else, and know what works best for their products or services. You shall learn from them and stop making jokes about their campaigns. Respect your clients and competitors clients by respecting their freedom of choice.
6th Advice: Building credibility is a tough task, are you ready to take the challenge or you prefer to keep raising your voice?
Before I leave, 3 Short notes:
1. To every body on this blog:
Keep doing what you believe it is right for your clients regardless of passive notes. If your client is happy, then you are on the correct path. Keep chasing the big idea and hopefully you will find it soon. Keep being passionate, sincere and creative. Respect the efforts of other people and review yours more than you do with theirs. In short, be constructive.
2. To Mr. Gilbert and Pencil team
Your work is nice, I don’t know if it works in this market or not, but good luck. Keep being inspired to do something new even others try to take the credit. I trust Mr. Gilbert is very intelligent and professional enough to ignore negative notes from mediocre people. You and your team have the talent for great accomplishments; keep going with my best wishes.
3. To Mr. Asfahani
Three things you need to do immediately, and one thing later:
a. [m].
b. [m]
c. [m].
The task you can do later is to check your awards cabinet and try to match your awards to the following list, if no match is there, then you haven’t won any real award:
1. Clio Award
2. ADA Award
3. CA Award
4. EFFIE Award
If you find any, please let us know, otherwise stop talking about awards anymore.
Good luck to every one and keep the good work
Feb 24th, 2008
Mark
sleepingowl I have to disagree with you on this.
Lets take this Tide ad as an example
http://www.frederiksamuel.com/blog/2006/12/tide.html
If we used a female model instead and a yellow shirt instead of white, and instead of a real photo we made it an illustration. Would that be ok in your book? It would be the same idea just a different execution.
Feb 24th, 2008
Mai
Nasser:
I loved what you wrote. I agree with most of it. Thanks. I want to ask you some questions, can I get your email?
“Sorry for writing this here”
Feb 24th, 2008
sleepingowl
Mark, no it wouldn’t be OK.
A. That would be a blatant copy.
B. By execution I did not mean switch a few colors and you’re safe. Execution is a different way of illustrating an idea that lies at the core. Just because Tide and Ariel emphasize the whiteness provided by the cleaning powder they are not copying each other. The idea here is whiteness. How you illustrate this is what should be different. Therefore, a core concept can be the same.
C. There is a difference between being inspired by an idea and lifting it completely. You’re talking about lifting it.
For example, if I have an idea which might be similar to someone in Brazil; and whom I’ve never met, doesn’t mean I’m copying him. Great minds think alike and such ;)
Feb 24th, 2008
Moey
Nasser, you are invited… coffee on me! *hugs*
I don’t know you, but you rock!
Feb 25th, 2008
Joe
Way to go Nasser! I just hope your comments will be taken on board. Cheers!
Feb 25th, 2008
Nasser
Hi MAI,
Thanks for your comment, you can contact me on
drzamer@mac.com
Good luck for all
Feb 28th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
Nasser: “2nd Advice: Figure out a way to find out if the campaign generated sales or not prior to start criticizing. Is there any way to get that information…good luck! “
Louai: Bad advertising sells…good advertising sells more and better
Nasser: “Any campaign is the visual translation of efforts, knowledge and commitment of many people and they deserve to be respected, no matter they have reached their goal or not”.
Louai: In the case of copy cat advertising how does that reflect the “effort” when coping? Or does it reflect the “knowledge and commitment of many people” and as such does it merit “respect”?
Nasser: “3rd Advice: Take a look behind the scene and try to see if it offers any creative leverage, belief and commitment before you fire on it.”
Louai: Where is the “creative leverage” in this case?
Nasser: “3. Advertising is about big ideas”
Louai: What exactly is the “idea” in this case?
Nasser: “4. Advertising is about combination “Ideas are new combinations of old elements” J.W. Young”
Louai: Is the element in this case consisting of “old elements”? does a time span of just two months in the same industry and in the same market? Warrant the description of “old elements”?
Nasser: “5th Advice: don’t look for similarities, try to find the individuality of the campaign and write about it, let people learn from you”.
Louai: In this particular case - Where is the “individuality”? And what can we learn here?
Nasser: “6th Advice: Building credibility is a tough task, are you ready to take the challenge or you prefer to keep raising your voice?”
Louai: In your professional opinion what does this artwork say about the “credibility” of Pencil Advertising?
Nasser: “2. To Mr. Gilbert and Pencil teamYour work is nice, I don’t know if it works in this market or not, but good luck. Keep being inspired to do something new even others try to take the credit. I trust Mr. Gilbert is very intelligent and professional enough to ignore negative notes from mediocre people. You and your team have the talent for great accomplishments; keep going with my best wishes”.
Louai: Is it “intelligent” to steal someone else idea? And whom in this case is taking the “credit” of others - the originator of the idea or the copiers of the idea?
Louai: Nasser you have serious issues…practice what you preach…and please do showcase your work
Mar 7th, 2008
jayson
i like pencil’s work than paragon… no hard feelings :)
Mar 9th, 2008
kre8tive
I second that :-)
Mar 9th, 2008
wakim
Wow, what a fight Louai has picked with everybody!? Well, Louai you can’t really walk around and accuse people of copying without really proving it. Yes, it’s true they look alike but it happens all the time in our industry and I believe that Gilbert is smart enough not to copy and even post it on a blog site for creatives. A good example of similar ideas and executions as a matter fact was in Cannes 07 (which you, Louai have attended) where two ads were exhibited in the food and beverage category for take-away coffee. they both illustrated a coffee mug placed sideways as if it’s a bag. They looked very close in terms of color and layout. With all that, the jury gave one of them a bronze if I’m not mistaken. So, everybody take a chill pill and enjoy your creativity.
Mar 9th, 2008
wakim
As for the ghost ads I do agree with Louai and Mark. There is nothing challenging with that. You can create ideas as such, try to sell them to clients, but if it didn’t work, well… it was a good exercise to keep your creative juice going… but make sure you always seize opportunities to deliver creative work for your clients. You never know when you might catch your client on a good day with the right brief and the right idea! just keep trying…
One thing for Louai, although i’m not really fond of your personality but I have to say you had some nice work a few years back and since then you’ve been on an ego trip which I believe has been killing your creative juice. My advice try to be less defensive and aggressive, focus on the good work and not just the awards because I keep on seeing the same ads re-released and sent again to the competitions every single year ex: the serhan snake shoe! I personally feel that there are a few worthy competitors in the market, try to stay as one of them, that’s the only way for all to keep on pushing the envelope.
Mar 9th, 2008
kre8tive
Wakim, the awards has gone into this guy’s head and made him metal, y’know hard on the outside and hollow on the inside.. True I agree with you he has to take a break from that long Ego trip. lol.
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
“it is only important to respect the people you know are better than you. that’s the way you learn and you grow. not all openions are constructive and correct” - Xavi Garcias.
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
“It is only important to respect the people you know are better than you. That’s the way you learn and you grow. Not all opinions are constructive and correct” - Xavi Garcias.
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
“Nobody else can mess up your mind, only you can do that” – Karel Beyen
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
“Truth is the best strategy anybody ever had. First it is the most powerful strategy you can have because it disarms people, and second, it is true, and you can’t deny the truth” – John Hegarty.
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
“I would rather fail for attempting to do something different, than just do constantly mediocre work” – Jack Mariucci
;) i second that
Mar 9th, 2008
kre8tive
“Quotes of the Day” courtesy of Picasso Advertising :-) ROTFL
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
I see you are done :* the admin “behind” so soon…well you know what they say “practice makes perfect”
Mar 9th, 2008
adchemist
Guys Its an award Winning Team.
Xavi Garcias - Art Director-Paragon Kuwait
Karel Beyen - Copy writer -Paragon Kuwait
John Hegarty - Accont Executive -Paragon Kuwait
Jack Mariucci - Photographer-Paragon Kuwait
LOUAI ALASFAHANI - CEO/ECD/AIA-Paragon Kuwait
Mar 9th, 2008
kre8tive
stop talking about behinds, dude… I know you got a big one but I ain’t interested. Yeah, true practice makes perfect.. fits you well. LMAO
Mar 9th, 2008
kre8tive
JaJaJaJaJaJa!!!! I like that Adchemist, Great one!! Lol
Mar 9th, 2008
Moey
adchemist HAHAHAHA!
Mar 9th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
Miaooo…you are back.
Mar 9th, 2008
adchemist
Mr. LOUAI,
No harm feeling just for fun, sorry for placing those great people at paragon!
Mar 10th, 2008
wakim
Thank you for the quotes Louai. I agree with all, but again you have to be down to earth to apply them. As quoted you still “can’t deny the truth” that I wrote previously.
Mar 10th, 2008
Louai Alasfahani
the documented truth is comming very soooooon. wait and see ;) no hard feelings though.
Mar 30th, 2008
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